At the September MarTech Conference, MarTech Editorial Director Mike Pastore gathered three seasoned practitioners to tackle a deceptively simple question: if marketers are swimming in data, why are so many insights still being left on the table? Joining him on the panel were:
John Heywood, director of product marketing, Braze.Colleen Harris, director of insights, Dealeron.Ryan Phelan, CEO of RPE Origin.
The conversation ranged from overlooked data sources like direct web traffic and CRM rules, to the challenge of channel silos, to the shifting reliability of email and web analytics in an AI-driven environment. What emerged was a clear message: marketers don’t need more data — they need to use what they already have more intelligently, more collaboratively, and with better hygiene.
Six panel discussions on data and AI, available on-demand when you log in or register. Watch now for free.
The most overlooked data sources
The panel began with a lightning round. Each expert named the most underutilized data point in modern marketing:
Phelan: Third-party data. “Everybody loves first-party data. But third-party is where the richness lives — attributes marketers don’t usually see in their ESPs or CRM. It’s essential for segmentation and targeting.” Harris: Direct traffic. “Marketers push it aside because it doesn’t have a source attached. But direct traffic holds a gold mine of user activity and intent—insights into how people really behave on your site or app.” Heywood: First-party engagement data. “Signals from your own apps and websites are often undervalued. When unified, they become one of the most powerful ways to personalize customer journeys.”
That opening set the tone: valuable signals exist everywhere, but organizational silos and old assumptions prevent them from being harnessed.
What’s blocking data use?
The audience poll revealed two top challenges: silos and integration gaps. Access itself was less of an issue — marketers generally have the data — but without integration and quality, it’s unusable.
Heywood: “Access isn’t the problem anymore. It’s data quality. What good is access if the data isn’t clean or trustworthy?” Phelan: “Integration is the bottleneck. When migrating platforms, we see teams whose ESP data never connects with their other tools. Without integration, segmentation stalls.” Harris: “Silos and integration go hand in hand. You can’t solve one without the other.”
The consensus: the tools exist, but without unified systems and governance, data potential goes unrealized.
Web analytics in an age of noise
Harris described the radical shift in web analytics: attribution has shattered.
“In 2007,” she said, “the funnel was neat: submit a lead, get a call, close in five days. Now? There are 65 touchpoints in many purchases. In automotive alone, over 20 touchpoints per sale. We need to stop pretending attribution is a straight line.”
Her advice: accept incomplete data. Use what you have. “It’s okay that you can’t see it all. Make decisions anyway.”
John Heywood added that clean, centralized data — often in cloud warehouses — makes this complexity manageable. Braze, he noted, is investing in zero-copy integrations so data doesn’t need to be constantly copied and synced across tools.
Phelan recalled the early days of “guiding” website visitors hand-in-hand. That predictability is gone. “Today, one shopper goes through every step; another impulse-buys in a minute. Web analytics must adapt to unpredictable, fragmented paths.”
Email data: Also disrupted
If web analytics has been upended, so has email. Apple’s Mail Privacy Protection and Gmail’s changes have made open rates unreliable—once everyone’s favorite metric.
Phelan: “Opens were never perfect, but now they’re meaningless. Clicks are better, but even clicks are polluted by bots. Email marketers must rely on conversions and tie back to web analytics for real signals of intent.” Heywood: “Consumers are everywhere — apps, social, WhatsApp, WeChat. Brands no longer define journeys; customers do. The job is to stitch signals together across channels.” Phelan: “Exactly. You need channel propensity. Just because you have an email address doesn’t mean that’s the channel of choice. Social, push, or even direct mail might matter more.”
The takeaway: email data alone can’t carry segmentation. It must be combined with multichannel engagement signals.
Zero- and first-party data: Still underused
The panel agreed: marketers consistently underutilize the most permission-rich data they own.
Heywood: “Zero-party data (preferences customers provide directly) requires a clear value exchange. People give you info when they see a benefit — discounts, personalization or relevance. And you must tell them how it will improve their experience.” Harris: “Too many CRMs are fossilized. If your rules haven’t changed in 15 years, you’re not capturing modern buying cycles. In auto, five years of influence might get collapsed into ‘walk-in.’ That’s malpractice.” Phelan: “And beware bad inputs. Some zero-party data is aspirational—or flat-out lies. But consumers want to give accurate info if you respect their exchange and use it transparently.”
Zero- and first-party data should be the foundation for personalization and AI. But without governance and reciprocity, marketers risk misuse.
Customer journeys: Fragmented beyond control
If attribution was messy before, AI and multichannel customer paths make it nearly impossible to script journeys.
Heywood: “Brands need holistic data strategies, but that’s years of work. In the short term, centralize marketing data — email, web, app — into one platform. Then build multi-step engagements that respect each touchpoint.” Phelan: “It’s political as much as technical. Sharing data across teams takes leadership. AI can accelerate insights, but executives must mandate collaboration.” Harris: “And don’t forget basics. Before AI, write down: What question am I trying to answer? If you don’t know that, you’ll drown in data.”
Data hygiene: where to start?
The Q&A turned to data hygiene — a recurring theme across the September 2205 MarTech Conference.
Harris: “Start with where your data lives. Tools must match your end-state system—Adobe, Tealium, warehouses. No one-size-fits-all.” Phelan: “Vet the source. Many vendors resell stale data. Big data houses remain more reliable.” Heywood: “Solve hygiene upstream if you can—in the warehouse or CDP—before it pollutes downstream engagement.”
The panel resisted naming a “best tool.” The key, they stressed, is first assessing your data needs, stack, and industry context before shopping solutions.
GEO, AEO and the alphabet soup of AI search
A hot topic: generative engine optimization (GEO). Is it hype or real?
Harris: “I started in SEO in the Yahoo days. It’s déjà vu. Strip away the acronyms — GEO, AEO, LLMs — the fundamentals remain: answer user questions, structure your site for crawlability, create relevant content.” Heywood: “Communities like Reddit are emerging as authoritative sources. Brands need to participate in those spaces. Authority isn’t just your site anymore.”
The consensus: the names change, but the fundamentals endure.
AI personas: Useful or hype?
An audience member asked whether AI personas are being used for stakeholder insights.
Heywood: “I’ve tried synthetic research tools. They’re good at validation, but sometimes echo what you feed them. The real potential is behavioral: how would this persona respond in certain scenarios?” Phelan: “Our big clients are hesitant—privacy concerns slow adoption. But AI could accelerate persona work if guardrails are in place.” Harris: “Don’t skip the sniff test. AI personas can sound realistic but miss human emotion — especially in high-stakes purchases like cars.”
Verdict: promising, but unproven. Useful as a supplement, not a replacement.
Key takeaways for marketers
Revisit neglected data. Direct traffic, CRM rules and third-party data still hold insights. Fix silos and integrations. Access isn’t enough — data must be unified, cleaned and accessible. Accept messy attribution. Stop chasing perfect paths. Use what you have and act anyway. Use zero- and first-party data wisely. Create clear value exchanges and keep systems updated. Treat AI with humility. Everyone is a beginner; focus on practical use cases. Ask better questions. Define what you need from data before diving into AI or new tools. Invest in hygiene upstream. Clean, accurate data multiplies value across every channel.
The bottom line
Marketers aren’t short on data. They’re short on discipline, integration and confidence in messy realities. As Harris put it, “Not all the data will always be there — and that’s okay.”
The opportunity isn’t chasing the next acronym, but unlocking overlooked assets already in the stack, cleaning them, integrating them and applying them with humility in a world where journeys are consumer-led, not brand-led.
